(see last year's piece for a different angle).
The rabbeinu yonah writes that Kevuras Sarah was Avraham's tenth nisayon:
העשירי קבורת שרה. שנאמר לו קום התהלך בארץ לארכה ולרחבה כי לך אתננה. וכשמתה אשתו לא מצא מקום לקברה עד שקנאו ולא הרהר
Ironically, the Ibn Ezra seems to view the story of kevuras sarah in almost the exact opposite light:
ונזכרה זאת הפרשה להודיע מעלת ארץ ישראל על כל הארצות לחיים ולמתים. ועוד לקיים דבר ד' לאברהם להיות לו נחלה
Rabbeinu Yonah thinks that making Avraham pay for the land, after he was already promised it, is in some sense a violation of that havtacha. The Ibn Ezra, on the other hand, thinks that hi gufa - this was the fulfillment of Hashem's promise to Avraham.
Parenthetically, the Ramban argues on both Rabbeinu Yonah and the Ibn Ezra:
ולא ידעתי טעם לדברי רבי אברהם שאומר להודיע מעלת ארץ ישראל לחיים ולמתים, ועוד לקיים לו דבר השם להיות לו נחלה, כי מה מעלה לארץ בזה כי לא יוליכנה אל ארץ אחרת לקברה, ודבר השם לאברהם על כל הארץ היה ונתקיים רק בזרעו
For the Ramban, Avraham's purchase of machpela was neither an abnegation nor a fulfillment of Hashem's havtacha, because that havtacha was only meant to be fulfilled generations later through zera Avraham. This machlokes rishonim seems to parallel the machlokes between the respective shepherds of Lot and Avraham, which does seem a little strange.
Getting back to the Ibn Ezra and his dispute with R Yonah, I suggest that the Ibn Ezra's approach has historically been an important part of Zionist history. When we began to return to EY in the 19th and 20th centuries, we had to buy the land back from its inhabitants. We've had to fight for it, and it has come (and continues to come) at a heavy price. All this shouldn't be seen as a violation of Hashem's havtacha -- to the contrary, it is a fulfillment thereof. Hashem promised us the land, but he didn't promise that it would come free.
Nonetheless, the words of the Rabbeinu Yonah echo - if Hashem promised us the land, why is there so much suffering for our brothers and sisters who live there? Let us pray for the security and safety of our brethren in Israel, and all around the world.
Mr. Mashkim, I am sure that the first settlers of Israel, the marxist atheist Bilu, had in mind this Ibn Ezra when they arrived on the shores of Jaffa to set up their socialist commune.
ReplyDeleteWow Mr. Mashkim. Usually you never cease to rip on and attack segments of klal yisarel, and here you defend the chilonim she-bichilonim -- that they were michaven to this Ibn Ezra! I appreciate your change of heart.
ReplyDeleteIt would appear that Mr. Mashkim is experiencing an early onset of senility. I am Tzafnas, not Mr. Mashkim. Has your mind become so addled by your ridiculous views that you have forgotten your own name?
ReplyDeleteConcerned,
Tzafnas Paneach
Oops.
DeleteMr Mashkim,
DeleteEven with an innocent dvar Torah, you continue to be doleh v’toeh. Let me take you down a road in a literature very important to Judaism that you possibly can consider next time before writing your blog. The Tanach.
When Yehoshua led Bnei Yisrael to Eretz Yisrael, did God empty out their wallets? Certainly they were quite wealthy from receiving all the gifts in Mitzraim, Midyan, and the other kingdoms, even before entering the land. Why didn’t God make them spend some money and buy Eretz Yisrael just like he had done to Avraham? Instead, it was a miraculous journey through which little pain was suffered. Did they pay Koresh for land when they returned to Eretz Yisrael a second time around? The fact that the early Zionist settlers we had to purchase land is simply because of our sins that have led us astray. This is a punishment, not a test or a fulfillment of God’s ideal plan. B’avonoseinu Harabim, the lack of the beis hamikdash has brought tragedy upon us that we unfortunately continue to bleed our way back to status-quo. This is clearly not an ideal fulfillment of God giving us Eretz Yisrael. Utilizing the Ibn Ezra’s pshat to explain the actions of Zionists who were very much anti-religion is like painting a rainbow over a crime scene. Keeps your mind ignorantly bliss from understanding the true pshat behind our circumstance.
One thing that I can agree with; We should continue to pray for the safety of acheinu bnei yisrael and pray to God that the geula comes speedily in our times with no more suffering.
Hi Mr. Mesanen,
DeleteI'm confused as your remark that I "continue to be doleh vitoeh" - I know that Mr. Paneach detests everything I write, but the few comments you've written so far have usually agreed with me.
In terms of your point, I will say the following:
1. Rashi in devarim writes that if bnei yisrael were zocheh, they would not have had to fight for EY. That they had to fight was part of the "price they had to pay." (And indeed, lidaavoneinu, Jewish lives were lost in Yehoshua and the subsequent shoftim and melachim's conquest of Israel.) So I hardly consider that a good example of Hashem just handing them EY on a platter, given that chazal view it otherwise.
2. I never said we should (c''v) relish in the cost we have to pay for EY. It is indeed possible that in an ideal world were we to not sin, that cost would vanish (see pt 1 above). My point was just maaseh avos siman labanim - just like Avraham received EY at a price, so too we (lidaavoneinu) live through that. (Ramban makes a similar pt. about yetzias mitzraim).
3. EY is niknei biyissurin - chazal say so! I'm not sure, but that statement sounds like it's true even in an ideal world.
Whether they knew it or not, the irreligious Zionists were part of G-d's plan to return the Jews to the holy land. This point is too weighty to be relegated to a comment debate, and I don't plan on discussing it here further.
Gut voch,
Mr. Mashkim
Apparently rumors have been spreading that Mr. Mesanen is merely a non de plume for Tzafnas. Besides Mr. Mesanen's poor penmanship and even poorer scholarship, which surely do not reflect the standards I hold for myself, I am simply amazed that Mr. Mashkim's hubris is so great, that he cannot even fathom others would criticize him once in a while. Yes, Mr. Mashkim, we all know that you have Mr. Mesanen bought and paid to be your sycophant, but, as the saying goes, if you feed the snake around your neck it will eventually grow big enough to strangle you. As to the content of Mr. Mesanen's criticism, to say that Joshua's conquering of the land was without cost is to simply proclaim ignorance of Tanach.
ReplyDeleteYours Truly,
Tzafnas Paneach
Mr. Mashkim,
ReplyDeleteFirst off, thank you for your response. I’m a new reader on your blog and true, I've agree with some things you have noted in the past, but I often think you are mistaken in many positions that you take. I, unlike Mr. Tzafnas, however, have a life so it’s not always feasible for me to comment.
1. The subsequent deaths of some Jews in Ay, during the times of the shoftim , and in sefer Melachim were also due to sin (so I’m not sure why you and Mr. Tzafnas do not consider those good examples.)
2. I never said that you were relishing on the price we pay for our land. You do, however, put a heavily positive spin on it. I do not think this is a maaseh avot siman l’banim. Again, you’re painting rainbows over a crime scene.
3. I’m aware of this point but I do not think this holds true in an ideal world. Indeed, the way Rashi quotes it in Breishis (in a couple of places) seems to connote a sense of punishment for the price we have to pay in acquiring E”y. This is also why Bnei Yisrael had to put in some effort to acquire E”y. The tragedies that occur today, I can only imagine, are unfortunately aggravated by our chataim. Ein Puranos ba leolam elah bishvil Yisrael.
Until next time...
Mr. Tzafnas,
ReplyDeleteYou clearly try very hard to sound intelligent through your writing. Usually when someone tries that hard, they are hiding something but it’s not often clear what they are trying to cover up. It’s not too difficult in this context, however, to see that you are attempting to hide your empty svaras behind a wall of jargon. Honestly, it belittles you and makes it very hard to sincerely consider anything you write.
Mr. Mesanen, unfortunately, you do not even attempt to present your comments as coherent or intelligent, and so, we see them exactly for what they are: simplistic and dull. Indeed, the sole redemptive quality saving them from banal mediocrity is their undeniable smelliness. If you cannot understand why conquering the land through brutal and savage battles is not handing it on a silver platter, then I have nothing more to say. At least there is one thing we are in agreement on. Undoubtedly, the travails of the early Zionist settlers, as well as our own in present times, reflect God's displeasure with us.
ReplyDeleteTzafnas Paneach
I have grown weary of the discussion on this blog. While the blog has previously been a forum for serious discussion of the important and interesting issues while also allowing for literary self expression, it has now devolved into (I accept some of the blame) a cesspool of ad hominen. Mr. Mashkim, it has been a pleasure. You have much potential, I hope you use it well. I, Tzafnas Paneach, hereby tender my resignation.
ReplyDeleteYours Truly.
Tzafnas Paneach
Mr. Mesanen and Mr. Paneach: Please try to be more respectful to each other.
DeleteRe: Tzafnas' resignation:
I would be quite sad to see you go, especially on a down note like this. Nonetheless, if this is your choice, so be it.
I must express my gratitude for all the comments that you've written here. While I cant say that I agree with you very much on anything substantive, your comments are works of literary art (as beautiful as those of Vincent Van Gogh). The language is exquisite; reading one of your comments is almost a sensory experience as I savor the phraseology as it rolls off the tongue. Truly, this is a talent that could be channelled as a force of good in the world, and I hope you recognize that opportunity and responsibility.
If this really is the end of your commenting era, I hope that you will choose to reveal your true identity (even the CIA/NSA/FBI will divulge once classified info when it is no longer sensitive).
I accept your resignation, albeit with a heavy heart, and I wish you all the best.
Sincerely,
Mr. Mashkim
Let me express my deep concern about the medieval witch hunt that is currently occurring in YU. Mr. Mashkim has undertaken the unfeasible task of revealing the hidden gem that is Tzafnas. What he does not know is that the Tzafnas is hiding under an putrid shell much like the pearl which grows under the grotesque oyster. Mr. Mashkim, you should direct your search to those who cannot boast the unmistakable penmanship of an budding demagogue, but for those who can barely muster three coherent syllables in conversation. When I heard you were gathering IP addresses, I presumed the next step in this hopeless quest was to subject all accused to "ordeal by water" under the presumption that Tzafnas, like a witch, would float. Your tactics scare me, and as a fellow human being I urge you to show restraint.
ReplyDeleteBaal Hachalomos
Second - to Tzafnas.
ReplyDeleteYou have been a worthy competitor, albeit one with a penchant for runaway rhetoric. As a fellow critic of Mr. Mashkim's creative reading and aggressive writing, you have supported my convictions as to the fundamental flaws Mr. Mashkim makes in his analyses. In the (likely) event that Mr. Mashkim's witch hunt turns up short, I hope that we will continue our correspondence, perhaps in a different forum. But for now, farewell...
Baal Hachalomos
Well, well, well Mr. Mashkim, apparently one cannot even retire in peace in modern day America. While it may take one to jig, it certainly takes two to tango. Mr. Mashkim, I will no longer watch passively as you conduct your despicable inquisition in a desperate attempt to recreate a medieval auto-de-fé. Desist immediately from hounding my family.
ReplyDeleteFormerly known as,
Tzafnas Paneach
Baal hachalomos, Mister Tzafnas:
ReplyDeleteCan you guys relax, please? I don't have FBI agents at my beck and call to storm your house in the middle of the night should I discover your identity, and I don't know where the Baal Hachalomos dreamt up waterboarding or other nonsense. Your threat, Mister Tzafnas, to no longer watch passively, disturbs me -- if anything, baal hachalomos should be afraid of you.
Still wishing you all the best,
Mr. Mashkim
While your warm comments may fool the simple-minded, the truth is that your crusade continues unabated. My sources in YU tell of your fist clenching, table banging, and occasional drooling. Your anger and zeal must subside before bringing yourself public humiliation.
ReplyDeleteWary of your intentions,
Baal hachalomos